Curse

ragnagard · Dec 17, 2007, 06:27 PM // 18:27

A great /signed

I have no reason to have Luxon /kurzick titles (rank X) on all my chars, even newborns and dont have the gwen "faction" rank.

Will it matter? :

- I dont care if i can kill the entire world of GW with a gwen skill at norn rank 10. My newborn character wont have it. My recently "arrives at gwen" character wont have it too.... I just can buy armor/weapons that are "elite" ones... will my newborn character have money? Main answer will be "no".

- I dont get the max rank as a present, just fought for it... vanquishin' doing missions, replaying the main quests... etc.

- Pvp chars got their titles, that work for its part of the game... our titles doesnt work for that part, as the pve-only skills.

The problem will reside in the "restructuration", as I can have 4k gwen-faction points in a new char, and 50k in my main char. I must have 54k when Anet make the titles account based?

I think that all titles have no reason to be account based but the ones that look like "Factions" ones, "must" be accout based. I think that even if I just get the max rank (50k in my example above).

maraxusofk · Dec 17, 2007, 11:19 PM // 23:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tylos Angelheart

Ok, Grinding titles.... so mainly the reputation titles for any race, creature or faction right?

So heres the thing, you make one character....max out ALLL his or her titles....and THEN (and heres the best part) .... you can make a new character with a huge amount of already maxed titles.... i mean lets see..
LvL 1 with Kind of a big deal.....
LvL 1 in Cantha, as a lvl 10 Vanguard agent... even though that Character has never even SEEN the Ebon Vanguard.

Get back into the spirit of the game.... this is an RPG... ROLE PLAYING GAME (ok ok so mmorpg or whatever the hell it is ) but my point being is that you have a character in his or her OWN world, being their OWN character. Just cos someone knows god himself dont mean his brother should too right? ... you get my point.

and for the rest of you stop moaning that it takes to long and keep playing... if you had everything given to you on a silver platter everything would be boring.

/NOT Signed

a great solution to this would be to have grind based titles account based UPON beating the game wit the character u want the titles on. i mean it would make sense to have lvl 10 norn AFTER u beat eotn. that way u save grind in the long run! oh just fyi i dont consider vanquishing task based. that is definitely grind, if u have ever done it.

Siadena · Dec 17, 2007, 11:28 PM // 23:28

/very signed

Albeit this would piss off crazy, avid title hunters that play GW for 10 hours a day - it would sure be popular with the "average" player. That player being - the statistic was ( a couple months ago) that the average GW player is IG for 1 hour 10 minutes a day. Albeit that takes into account people who have left the game recently since there's no monthly fee and no way to track it, but that's the average. Taking this "average" - before GW 2 comes out - that player has anywhere from 550 to 760 hours of gameplay to get titles - and that's if title hunting was all they were doing on just one char? C'mon, no way.

But yeah, I seriously doubt they'll change it. Part of their resoning will hopefully be that although titles done in GW on ONE char only count for that char, I hope the benefit/unlock in GW2 will account for the whole account - or ANY char you pick which you create to have the unlock.
...if that makes sense...

Turbobusa · Dec 18, 2007, 01:29 PM // 13:29

I'll just say I dont like the idea :P
Your chars aint part of a group that worked together, so they have to earn the respect of each faction separatly.

Edit by Fallen Hunter: Removed reference to deleted post.

freekedoutfish · Dec 18, 2007, 01:40 PM // 13:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Siadena

/very signed

Albeit this would piss off crazy, avid title hunters that play GW for 10 hours a day - it would sure be popular with the "average" player. That player being - the statistic was ( a couple months ago) that the average GW player is IG for 1 hour 10 minutes a day.

All hail those who make assumptions!

I like attaining titles and I have no issues with how they currently work, and guess what - i'm an average, casual player.

I dont play more then an hour or two a night, and I never have. Yet i've still managed to achieve most things like alot of elite armors, legendary cartog and legendary guardian and so on and so forth.

Kudos for making the most overly assumed thing ingame. Not everyone who likes to spend long periods of time achieveing things are hardcore!!!! A lot of us just accept that some things take a long time to achieve and it should be that way.

Whys do people always jump on "you must be a hardcore player with lots of ingame time to play if you dont want this stuff changed, raghhh" arguement when they dont even know the person?

I got this in the countless exploration threads; I didnt sign the idea of making exploration easier and I got bashed with "well we're not all hardcore players like you, who spend hours playing every night and have lots of time to explore". Not one person bothered to ask how often or long I play.

If they had, they would realised I only play a short time every night and I would much rather be down the pub with my mates socialising them playing a computer game.

Yet I manage this stuff and I have achieved all these things which apparently you have to be "hardcore" to accomplish. There is nothing in this game which cant be done by a casual player. Yes it may take longer, but thats life!

Obviously if someone else has lots more free time, they can spend longer doing this stuff and earning more titles and so on. That doesnt mean they want to, and it doesnt mean a casual player cant do the same.

If you have such a busy life, and very short time for RnR and to unwind in GWs the maybe your playing the wrong game. If you havent the time to earn titles on each character because you have a baby to look after, a 9till5 job to do or homework or exams coming up.... then you need a reality check.

You can't blame Anet just because they havent adjusted the game to better suit a house wife, a mother, or full-time worker or a student! If you want to do something and you want 100% out of it, you need to know whether you can put 100% in and enough hours in to accomplish this stuff.

Im not hardcore and I know there are things I wont accomplish because I dont want to spend 6 hours ingame everday and id much rather be out socialising and I have university work to do.

Do you see me winging because I cant achieve this thing or title because Anet didnt build the game around my social life or my university education? No!

Stop using this hardcore vs casual player arguement! We are all capable of accomplishing the same stuff. It may just take longer for those who dont have enough time to dedicate ingame, but thats reality for you.

tmr819 · Dec 18, 2007, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Of all the grind-based titles in GW I've contended with, I'd have to say Lightbringer is the most vexing because ...

(i) it takes so long to rank up in it;
(ii) yet it's a really helpful, nay, essential, grind-based rank to have in game; and
(iii) the bounty-givers are all over the place (grrrr.... killing mobs of Margonites just to get to the Margonite bounty-giver is aggravating).

The EotN bounties/rep-grinding doesn't bother me nearly so much and could stay as is, for all I care. At least in EotN, one bounty works for everything you kill.

My suggestion would simply be to change the bounties in Nightfall to be either Lightbringer or Sunspear and scratch the insect/Margonite/plant/Kournan/beast, etc., distinctions.

I'd say let each toon earn his or her own rep, but just make it simpler to get that rep in NF.

MithranArkanere · Dec 18, 2007, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Yeah. Factions and Nightfall bounties could be reworked to go exactly as GW:EN, and also add books.

Factions/Lightbringer should be maxable in a year, and the rest in at least month.

SleetDragon · Dec 18, 2007, 07:33 PM // 19:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

All hail those who make assumptions!

I like attaining titles and I have no issues with how they currently work, and guess what - i'm an average, casual player.

I dont play more then an hour or two a night, and I never have. Yet i've still managed to achieve most things like alot of elite armors, legendary cartog and legendary guardian and so on and so forth.

Kudos for making the most overly assumed thing ingame. Not everyone who likes to spend long periods of time achieveing things are hardcore!!!! A lot of us just accept that some things take a long time to achieve and it should be that way.

Whys do people always jump on "you must be a hardcore player with lots of ingame time to play if you dont want this stuff changed, raghhh" arguement when they dont even know the person?

I got this in the countless exploration threads; I didnt sign the idea of making exploration easier and I got bashed with "well we're not all hardcore players like you, who spend hours playing every night and have lots of time to explore". Not one person bothered to ask how often or long I play.

If they had, they would realised I only play a short time every night and I would much rather be down the pub with my mates socialising them playing a computer game.

Yet I manage this stuff and I have achieved all these things which apparently you have to be "hardcore" to accomplish. There is nothing in this game which cant be done by a casual player. Yes it may take longer, but thats life!

Obviously if someone else has lots more free time, they can spend longer doing this stuff and earning more titles and so on. That doesnt mean they want to, and it doesnt mean a casual player cant do the same.

If you have such a busy life, and very short time for RnR and to unwind in GWs the maybe your playing the wrong game. If you havent the time to earn titles on each character because you have a baby to look after, a 9till5 job to do or homework or exams coming up.... then you need a reality check.

You can't blame Anet just because they havent adjusted the game to better suit a house wife, a mother, or full-time worker or a student! If you want to do something and you want 100% out of it, you need to know whether you can put 100% in and enough hours in to accomplish this stuff.

Im not hardcore and I know there are things I wont accomplish because I dont want to spend 6 hours ingame everday and id much rather be out socialising and I have university work to do.

Do you see me winging because I cant achieve this thing or title because Anet didnt build the game around my social life or my university education? No!

Stop using this hardcore vs casual player arguement! We are all capable of accomplishing the same stuff. It may just take longer for those who dont have enough time to dedicate ingame, but thats reality for you.

Thats all you gotta say if you can't do it and wanna complain about it then perhaps you're playing the wrong game. I agree its hard and grinding but if you don't wanna do it, then you don't have to. Anet gave you that choice. If you don't wanna earn your titles like everyone else then everyone else doesnt want you to earn titles like this...

BlackSephir · Dec 18, 2007, 08:29 PM // 20:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleetDragon

Thats all you gotta say if you can't do it and wanna complain about it then perhaps you're playing the wrong game.

Perhaps if you wanted another grindy-shitty MMO, you're playing the wrong game?

Quote:

I agree its hard and grinding

"Hard" and "grinding" in the same sentence? Just... wow. If you consider grind hard you must be awesome player.

Quote:

I agree its hard and grinding but if you don't wanna do it, then you don't have to.

Right, and it doesn't matter that Bob will have better character (better skills) because he grinded so much, just because he has more time.
Ever heard of time > skill in GW? I bet you didn't.

Quote:

Anet gave you that choice.

Hahaha, ever heard of something like illusion of choice? If you want R8 Lightbringer, then there is no 'choice' you have to grind.
Or maybe youl'll be so cool and name some none-grindy ways to get to R8 Lightbringer? Can't? What about Norn R10? Sunspear R10? Wow, so many choices!

Quote:

If you don't wanna earn your titles like everyone else then everyone else doesnt want you to earn titles like this...

Aaah, grinding = earning. So I can put my retarded brother in front of the pc, show him lb farm run, leave him for 10h and we're earning the title?
Some people just don't want challenge in their "earnings"

Mordakai · Dec 18, 2007, 08:34 PM // 20:34

I never understood why Kurzick/Luzon Faction was account based, and Sunspear and GWEN faction wasn't.

/signed

lyra_song · Dec 18, 2007, 08:53 PM // 20:53

.-. gosh this thread is still alive?
havent we repeated everything like 4-5 times already.

freekedoutfish · Dec 18, 2007, 10:42 PM // 22:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by SleetDragon

Thats all you gotta say if you can't do it and wanna complain about it then perhaps you're playing the wrong game. I agree its hard and grinding but if you don't wanna do it, then you don't have to. Anet gave you that choice. If you don't wanna earn your titles like everyone else then everyone else doesnt want you to earn titles like this...

that was pretty much my long winded point!

Accursed · Dec 18, 2007, 10:46 PM // 22:46

/notsigned

it'll make the game too easy. and you could get Elite armor early on, when GW:EN was originally just for lvl 20's

BlackSephir · Dec 18, 2007, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blizzard.

it'll make the game too easy.

Quote:

it'll make the game too easy.

Quote:

easy

Wow, there's more of you.
Seriously, if you think grinding is hard, I have no words.

Isileth · Dec 18, 2007, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blizzard.

/notsigned

it'll make the game too easy. and you could get Elite armor early on, when GW:EN was originally just for lvl 20's

How does that make it easier?

You do realise elite armor doesnt offer any more protection than standard max armor? Nothing is made easier.

The difference is you dont have to grind out titles you already have to access content you have already achieved access to.

Vinraith · Dec 19, 2007, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I never understood why Kurzick/Luzon Faction was account based, and Sunspear and GWEN faction wasn't.

/signed

Because Luxon/Kurzick is earned through PvP.

It's also preposterously slow to earn in comparison to the other faction reps. The GWEN titles don't require any grind since the handbook buff, you can easily get to rank 5 in each without ever doing anything but quests and a few dungeons. Sunspear is equally simple, you hit rank 8 by the end of NF just by playing the game. The only real "grind" rep title is LB, which is badly in need of a handbook of its own. If anything, I'd like to see them make L/K as easy to get as Sunspear and the GWEN rep titles and then make it character based. I might actually have a use for a Factions PvE skill for once.

freekedoutfish · Dec 19, 2007, 01:24 PM // 13:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

How does that make it easier?

You do realise elite armor doesnt offer any more protection than standard max armor? Nothing is made easier.

The difference is you dont have to grind out titles you already have to access content you have already achieved access to.

How would making titles like lightbringer and the GWEN titles account based make the game easier? Hm! Lets think about it.

You could create a character in NF and instantly have +damage and +protection against abaddons minions at max ranks.

You could enter GWEN at lvl10-lvl20 and instantly have +damage, +armor, +protection and +energy the minute you enter those regions where they take effect at max ranks!

You could aquire pve only skills from factions, NF or GWEN instantly maxed out. Making your gaming alot easier if you have maxed out oober skills. Some of which you get early in the game in the case of NF.

If that doesnt sound like "making the game easier" then I dont know what does! Yet your arguement will be...

"So what, it makes the game more fun."
"So what, I earnt those ranks and maxed skills on my other characters."

...but never mind the fact it would make the game alot easier in some respects like I mentioned. I would then just have to laugh when people started saying "the game is too easy now... I want it made harder"!

Your proposing that a character who has never set foot in GWEN have a maxed out Drawf, Norn, Asuran or Vanguard title just because your other char has it! Despite the fact, that character will have never even seen an Asuran or an Norn. It kills the idea of role playing if they have access to things from areas they have never been to.

Your suggesting that a character share lightbringer and sunspear titles, despite the fact they might have never been to Elona or even reached the point where you start earning LB points. How does that keep inline with it being role play?

You cannot have access to stuff you aquire from areas, if your character has never even set foot in those campaigns, continents or areas! How does that not register in your head? PVE is role play and if you dont like that, then stick to pvp where all that matters if fighting.

PvE is about a storyline and role playing through their lives and their experiences! They cant have stuff they have never experienced!!!!

MithranArkanere · Dec 19, 2007, 03:40 PM // 15:40

As I've already said, there are ways to prevent that.

You can require players to:
- Max the title in at least one character.
- Increase the title to a certain rank in the rest.

Then, you'll HAVE to grind to rank (Lightbringer 8) and (10) for the rest.
Then, something like:
- Reach Lightbringer 3..4.
- Reach Sunspear 8.
- Reach 5 in GW:EN titles.
- Reach 1..3 in the rest of the grind titles (treasure hunter, wisdom, etc)
And done! Your title 'springs' and becames account based.

That way a player that has 10 characters grinds more than a player that has 4, but not enough to make the things easier or boring.

Isileth · Dec 19, 2007, 03:44 PM // 15:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

...but never mind the fact it would make the game alot easier in some respects like I mentioned. I would then just have to laugh when people started saying "the game is too easy now... I want it made harder"!

I am one of the people who would prefer the game to be harder.
But grind titles dont make it easier. Chosing to use those skills and titles does.

However making those titles require more grind to get also doesnt make it harder. It just means it takes longer to get those titles. Its still the same level of challenge, just you have to stick with it for longer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

Your suggesting that a character share lightbringer and sunspear titles, despite the fact they might have never been to Elona or even reached the point where you start earning LB points. How does that keep inline with it being role play?

Then dont display the title or use the skills.
The fact is if your playing through a second char you know it all anyways.

You know group x is evil.
You know good guy y is actually going to stab you in the back.
You know that bad guys z are still bad guys.
You know at point A in mission B you will get ambushed.
You know the counter to a boss your char has never seen before.
etc etc

So what do you do when role playing your char? You pretend not to know that.

Same for the skills and titles. Just dont use them till you see fit to do so.

If you want to keep it inline with your suggestion then shared storage has got to go. Because thats an advantage from another char. Currently people who want to RP can ignore that as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by freekedoutfish

How would making titles like lightbringer and the GWEN titles account based make the game easier? Hm! Lets think about it.

You could create a character in NF and instantly have +damage and +protection against abaddons minions at max ranks.

You could enter GWEN at lvl10-lvl20 and instantly have +damage, +armor, +protection and +energy the minute you enter those regions where they take effect at max ranks!

You could aquire pve only skills from factions, NF or GWEN instantly maxed out. Making your gaming alot easier if you have maxed out oober skills. Some of which you get early in the game in the case of NF.

If that doesnt sound like "making the game easier" then I dont know what does!

You could also choose no to use them.

They are all things you can either turn off and not use.

If you want to grind before you let yourself use them, go ahead.
If you dont want to grind again, you can do that as well.

Nuclfus · Dec 19, 2007, 05:02 PM // 17:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by Isileth

I am one of the people who would prefer the game to be harder.
But grind titles dont make it easier. Chosing to use those skills and titles does.

However making those titles require more grind to get also doesnt make it harder. It just means it takes longer to get those titles. Its still the same level of challenge, just you have to stick with it for longer.

Account-wide grind isn't necessarily more or less grind, just more choice in which character to grind on and no choice as to what character that grind applies to. I think what you want is more along the lines of "scale character grind down by 75%".

Quote:

Then dont display the title or use the skills.
The fact is if your playing through a second char you know it all anyways.

You know group x is evil.
You know good guy y is actually going to stab you in the back.
You know that bad guys z are still bad guys.
You know at point A in mission B you will get ambushed.
You know the counter to a boss your char has never seen before.
etc etc

So what do you do when role playing your char? You pretend not to know that.

Same for the skills and titles. Just dont use them till you see fit to do so.

By your reasoning, a freshly created PvE character should start out at level 20 with access to all the towns you've ever visited on another character in your account. You've already been there before and you'll get there again either way, so why not just pretend you can't access those towns and endgame areas yet until you see fit as per progress in the plot?

The reason the game doesn't work that way is the same reason character grind titles are not account grind titles. When my ranger makes her way through the missions in Nightfall, the assumption is that she can't just skip to the end because as far as she's concerned (although I might know better) there are no preordained footsteps to follow that were left for her back when the same missions were done earlier on my mesmer. As such, she goes earning her own sunspear ranks, working her way up the ladder instead of starting from the get-go as a legendary spearmarshal. And as she progresses through the Nightfall plot, the slow crawl in power of Never Rampage Alone will reflect that.

Quote:

If you want to keep it inline with your suggestion then shared storage has got to go. Because thats an advantage from another char. Currently people who want to RP can ignore that as well.

True, low level characters can easily access max equipment and loot earned much more easily by higher characters. But unfortunately it's the only practical way Guild Wars has of item transfer between different characters, and seeing as two characters played by different accounts can exchange items it should follow that the mechanism is fair for characters on the same account. Taking out shared storage just means this will be a very impractical process, while the low level characters can just buy cheap max weapons in trade anyway.

Quote:

You could also choose no to use them.

They are all things you can either turn off and not use.

If you want to grind before you let yourself use them, go ahead.
If you dont want to grind again, you can do that as well.

Whether you want to admit it or not, grinding is a choice. Obviously you would agree that these skills aren't needed to enjoy the game (otherwise whether to use them or not wouldn't be a choice), and as for others who claim or pretend that these skills are necessary, anyone who remembers playing in a time when these skills didn't even exist is going to know how full of crap they are.

It is ultimately up to the player to decide whether having PvE skills at a particular power level is worth spending time grinding up the corresponding title(s). All this argument does is to have some players make a choice so that others won't have to.